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what we're doing there's righteous act

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gentlemen you hear me Gordo mm-hmm

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here's bubble verse I think about

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sometimes minute Elam's it goes then I

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heard the voice of the Lord saying whom

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shall I send

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and I said here am I send me

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that's Shia LaBeouf from the movie fury

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talking about the mixed feelings that

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come with being chosen I thought it was

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a good fit for my interview with David

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ditch field who had a rather remarkable

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near-death experience

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I pushed David pretty hard on his

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Christian interpretation of the

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experience but I think we settled on

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some but I think we settled on some

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interesting deeper truths about being

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chosen interviewed people David who've

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had multiple near-death experiences and

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they've said that they've gone deeper

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and subsequent ones and the reality that

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they were at gave way to a deeper

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reality and then a deeper reality beyond

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that and they even speculate that

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there's almost no end to how deep or how

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high because it's all moving towards the

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light moving towards God moving towards

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love how does that strike you yes I do

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because as I said to you I felt like I

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was being prepared for something to go

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on to another stage and I realized now

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since my NDE that a lot of my teachings

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are still coming through now and it's

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almost like they sent me back and it's

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kind of okay so I'm backing out but I

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didn't suddenly feel like oh man I don't

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want to be back here you know I straight

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away I was thinking right I want what's

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my purpose why they send it back

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[Music]

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welcome to skeptical where we explore

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controversial science and spirituality

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with leading researchers thinkers and

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their critics

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I'm your host Alex Karras and today we

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welcome davidich field to skeptic Co

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he's here to talk about a new book of

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his called shine on an amazing

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remarkable near-death experience story

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that changed David's life in well a

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number of ways that we're going to talk

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about you know we don't usually do

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stories on near-death experience

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accounts but David has a lot more to

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talk about in terms of the near-death

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experience in general and also I think

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there's some interesting kind of subtle

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cultural differences between the UK and

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the US and how we all think about

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near-death experience so David I think

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we'll have a good discussion thanks for

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joining me today

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well thanks for having me alone good to

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meet you if so I can jump right into the

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excellent trailer that you guys did for

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[Music]

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David you know had immediate experience

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and that was just very gripping I

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remember listening to them I couldn't

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turn it off at all I was really drawn

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into his experience and you could hear

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it in his voice okay so for folks who

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saw that I think it's gonna be super

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compelling for folks who are listening

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which is the largest part of I think

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there probably didn't have as much

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except there are these amazing images

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that you do in your painting that we're

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going to talk more about and then also

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that music that all comes about as a

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result of this remarkable experience so

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in words then tell people what they're

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hearing in that introduction okay yeah

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well what I wanted to condense nicely

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into that trailer there was you know the

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book itself which is a journey

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we start off it starts with a point in

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my life where I was down basically on my

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luck hose I'd hit hard times and I then

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we take you from that point to the train

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accident that I had that should have

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taken my life but didn't and then the

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near-death experience and then coming

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out of that coming through the other

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side of all that and suddenly being

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compelled to to want to paint huge

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canvases like I'd never done before in

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my life and then going from that to want

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to write classical music which I've also

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never done and all these things came

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about because I felt this strong urge to

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really want to be able to tell everyone

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what I'd seen and what I've been through

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you know I just felt and still feel this

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it's very important message to get

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across so yeah that's that's you know

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nuts you are the kind of it's a journey

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if you like so it's taking you from that

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journey of darkness at the beginning has

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to be said because that's where I was at

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and coming out the other side and coming

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into like this you know a beautiful more

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colorful and three-dimensional way of

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living you know so there's kind of a lot

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to that you know as I kind of alluded to

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on this year we've kind of explored a

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lot of different aspects of near-death

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experience

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more from a scientific standpoint and

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that's not to lessen the significance of

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anyone's story but more as a way to kind

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of lead us into someone's story because

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your account is remarkable because

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you're just kind of a guy there who's in

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London who's very expensive place to

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live and you're having trouble making it

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doing labour stuff and building tree

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houses and doing that stuff and you go

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say goodbye to your girlfriend on the

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train and you go to step back from the

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train your coat is caught in the in the

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train which is quite unbelievable to

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think how that could happen but it does

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and you should die I mean from what

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happens you're dragged down the tracks

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you're thrown under the train you should

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die by all accounts but instead you what

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happens is what we hear so often in your

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death experience which are outside of

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your body you have this amazing

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experience and then as you say you have

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a transformation afterwards that changes

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your life in some significant ways so it

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is a remarkable story in all those

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respects you know one of the things that

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you deal with in your book I guess is

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kind of this interplay between two

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different groups I thought this was an

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interesting interplay these two

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different groups that are kind of

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advising you in one are these folks from

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the spiritualist Church which are

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guiding you in this kind of profound way

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and the other is this very materialistic

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kind of psychological that you're going

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to see a therapist and she's coming at

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it from a very grounded kind of I don't

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really know if I believe this but I'll

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just go well what did you see is that in

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your personal life what do you what did

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how did you experience that tension

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between the kind of spiritualist church

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perspective and the psychiatrist his

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perspective well both absolutely

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relevant to me at the time and as much

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as obviously I'd had to deal with quite

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a horrific accident you know going under

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a train and facing life very death in

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the eyes

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is very traumatic so I had to deal with

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all that that's why I had those sessions

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but at the same time I was being helped

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by the spiritualist Church I was going

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to spiritual healing and I found that to

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be really quite remarkable it was

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helping me to heal both physically and

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mentally and and I know that that was

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challenging to people in a medical

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profession

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ie the the therapists because I knew

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that she was kind of like it was kind of

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the gears were grinding a bit for her

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because I kept talking about my

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spiritual aspect and I could I felt that

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he was trying to close me down on that

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so yes yeah yeah but I knew that she was

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in that she couldn't deny what I was

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talking about it was actually something

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quite strong and powerful and so in

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terms of science you're talking about it

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you know I've been in conversations with

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scientists via interviews like this and

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and I found it to be really ok you know

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because I mean for me we need science I

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wouldn't still be here now without the

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scientists like I need the doctors and

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the consultants that saved me and put me

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back together you know so we need the

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balance of two in our life so that's how

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I see it with those two aspects that I

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found that I was benefitting for both

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and I never found that there was a

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personally for me that there was a kind

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of drawing of the gears as I put it so

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yeah both were really relevant yeah I

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just think there's there's a lot of

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different ways to take that one of the

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things I felt again and again in the

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book is kind of this cultural difference

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that I don't know if a lot of people

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pick up on but you're probably in a good

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position to talk to it because as part

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of the book shine

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you've now done a number of interviews

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of people in the US as well as in the UK

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and there seems to be we seem to have a

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kind of a different take on it people in

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the u.s. seem to be much more open to

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the spiritual light and love stuff and

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in the UK it seems like we're still

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having to kind of tell the story this is

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real please believe me

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you know if I did an interview with the

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woman from the Guardian and she's like

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wow I probably don't really believe you

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and I'm really afraid of death so tell

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it tells me the still

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from that standpoint and I just wonder

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if you see those how you see those

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differences in our two cultures um yeah

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there's a massive change most certainly

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you're talking to us people it's I don't

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know what it is it's just I guess it's

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like it's a very cultural thing you know

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that the British are very you know sort

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of stiff upper lip and you know we

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almost like stuck in Victorian time

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still very early we don't get in touch

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with emotions and it's almost like yes

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okay let's then there's many a times I'd

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speak to people here I mean for example

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when I was in hospital I remember I

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wanted to speak to like the like the

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priest that was in the hospital itself I

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was dying to speak to him because I

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thought it up he's got to get this story

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straight away he was a lovely guy but I

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felt that he was like kind of closing me

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down as if to say okay David that's

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enough let's say a prayer for you but I

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thought and that was so very British

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whereas yes when I would speak to people

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in the u.s. there are a lot more wanting

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to sort of listen and absorb more of it

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and they're not too quick to sort of

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judge on it

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but again going back to all of this

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talking about it earlier it's it's good

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to have both elements because in save

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that I've spoken to I've done interviews

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here I remember doing it an interview on

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a like a Drivetime show here and this

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guy came on and he got me on the show

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and I could hear him talking just before

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the commercial break I thought this is

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all wrong it's not going to work and it

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was one of the very first interviews

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that I did I thought he's just not going

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to get this and the FIR yeah he kind of

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come on then you know tell us the story

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so I started tearing it and by the time

273
00:11:53,199 --> 00:11:51,980
had finished it he was going look I've

274
00:11:55,569 --> 00:11:53,209
got to stop you because we're going to

275
00:11:59,170 --> 00:11:55,579
the news break but this is great I want

276
00:12:02,199 --> 00:11:59,180
to come back to this and it was like it

277
00:12:03,639 --> 00:12:02,209
made me realise that people can deny as

278
00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:03,649
much as they like but at the end of the

279
00:12:08,829 --> 00:12:07,010
day it's it's that thing that I realized

280
00:12:11,740 --> 00:12:08,839
that none of us actually think about

281
00:12:13,030 --> 00:12:11,750
death at all it's a strange thing that

282
00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:13,040
none of us do not others want to go

283
00:12:16,059 --> 00:12:14,930
there but it's not like I think we

284
00:12:17,650 --> 00:12:16,069
should be talking about it every day

285
00:12:19,990 --> 00:12:17,660
over our breakfast cereal

286
00:12:21,250 --> 00:12:20,000
there's this that we should actually

287
00:12:23,079 --> 00:12:21,260
talk about it more because it's

288
00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:23,089
inevitable it's all going to happen to

289
00:12:26,590 --> 00:12:24,410
at one point you know we may as well

290
00:12:30,519 --> 00:12:26,600
talk about it and think about it and and

291
00:12:34,239 --> 00:12:30,529
the fear element will go away and so so

292
00:12:36,699 --> 00:12:34,249
maybe in the u.s. a lot more people are

293
00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:36,709
going to be a lot more open sooo to at

294
00:12:41,019 --> 00:12:39,290
that point and when that happens when

295
00:12:42,489 --> 00:12:41,029
that point of death comes up they'll be

296
00:12:46,030 --> 00:12:42,499
less scared

297
00:12:47,499 --> 00:12:46,040
that's fearful maybe although you know

298
00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:47,509
there's a couple other ways to pull

299
00:12:51,249 --> 00:12:49,370
apart those cultural differences like

300
00:12:54,900 --> 00:12:51,259
one of the things I see is it seems to

301
00:12:58,410 --> 00:12:54,910
me that people in the UK have kind of

302
00:13:02,920 --> 00:12:58,420
bought into the atheistic kind of

303
00:13:05,350 --> 00:13:02,930
scientism stuff that some folks in the

304
00:13:07,569 --> 00:13:05,360
US have kind of gotten to the other side

305
00:13:10,929 --> 00:13:07,579
of and said hey that's probably not the

306
00:13:12,489 --> 00:13:10,939
whole story we are not just biological

307
00:13:14,949 --> 00:13:12,499
robots and him in the meaningless

308
00:13:18,429 --> 00:13:14,959
universe there's something more to this

309
00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:18,439
story versus I still when I talk to

310
00:13:22,660 --> 00:13:21,170
people you can't they're unapologetic

311
00:13:24,939 --> 00:13:22,670
about well of course them of course I'm

312
00:13:26,769 --> 00:13:24,949
a theist of course science explains

313
00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:26,779
everything and you're like oh you

314
00:13:30,549 --> 00:13:28,850
haven't maybe kept up on the research

315
00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:30,559
and the same thing like when I heard

316
00:13:34,389 --> 00:13:33,050
your therapist say okay you know I David

317
00:13:36,939 --> 00:13:34,399
to be honest with you I first

318
00:13:39,999 --> 00:13:36,949
investigated your NDE and I know about I

319
00:13:41,259 --> 00:13:40,009
think she even said MDMA receptors in

320
00:13:45,610 --> 00:13:41,269
the brain and all this stuff which is

321
00:13:47,499 --> 00:13:45,620
like outdated out completely dismissed

322
00:13:51,879 --> 00:13:47,509
science as it comes to near-death

323
00:13:54,009 --> 00:13:51,889
experience so I wonder if that just

324
00:13:55,540 --> 00:13:54,019
hasn't penetrated to a certain extent

325
00:13:58,179 --> 00:13:55,550
but then you also on the flip side of

326
00:14:00,639 --> 00:13:58,189
that so you guys are a theistic in kind

327
00:14:02,980 --> 00:14:00,649
of a mind-numbing way and then of course

328
00:14:05,199 --> 00:14:02,990
in the u.s. they're Christian in a

329
00:14:08,710 --> 00:14:05,209
mind-numbing kind of way where it's hey

330
00:14:10,809 --> 00:14:08,720
it has to be this one way and that's the

331
00:14:13,929 --> 00:14:10,819
only way we could ever understand it

332
00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:13,939
that has its that has its limitations -

333
00:14:18,549 --> 00:14:15,410
there's a lot of people who own tuxedo

334
00:14:21,009 --> 00:14:18,559
theists who are but it's mainly sort of

335
00:14:23,650 --> 00:14:21,019
Christian and Church of England as we

336
00:14:25,269 --> 00:14:23,660
call it all Catholic and I think there's

337
00:14:27,340 --> 00:14:25,279
a whole mess there that we could get

338
00:14:29,199 --> 00:14:27,350
into you know exactly because it's a

339
00:14:32,470 --> 00:14:29,209
it's a faith that hasn't changed over

340
00:14:34,090 --> 00:14:32,480
over decades or centuries it omits

341
00:14:35,830 --> 00:14:34,100
remain the same and there's no budging

342
00:14:37,450 --> 00:14:35,840
so there's no sort of light

343
00:14:39,070 --> 00:14:37,460
li-huei you know as I talked about the

344
00:14:41,590 --> 00:14:39,080
priests in the hospital though it's

345
00:14:42,970 --> 00:14:41,600
almost like it was like a robot who's

346
00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:42,980
that the steam is about to start coming

347
00:14:46,260 --> 00:14:44,690
out his ears and then I can't I can't

348
00:14:49,180 --> 00:14:46,270
comprehend this this is wrong you know

349
00:14:53,110 --> 00:14:49,190
they can turn we can't understand it in

350
00:14:55,090 --> 00:14:53,120
terms of he can't process it and then I

351
00:14:58,690 --> 00:14:55,100
think at this other level that we're not

352
00:15:01,420 --> 00:14:58,700
even aware of we can't process why he

353
00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:01,430
can't process it if you know what I mean

354
00:15:06,130 --> 00:15:03,890
like I get the sense that you weren't a

355
00:15:08,470 --> 00:15:06,140
super religious guy beforehand but you

356
00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:08,480
had a sense that if you went to a priest

357
00:15:12,220 --> 00:15:10,370
he would have some answer and then when

358
00:15:14,980 --> 00:15:12,230
he doesn't that kind of throws you for a

359
00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:14,990
loop like but aren't you supposed to be

360
00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:17,090
interested in this what is really making

361
00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:20,210
us exactly how I felt you know it wasn't

362
00:15:24,730 --> 00:15:22,330
like I was going there for sort of

363
00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:24,740
confirmation on what happened it was

364
00:15:28,900 --> 00:15:27,290
like I just thought wow you you you guys

365
00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:28,910
will want to hear this because it's part

366
00:15:33,190 --> 00:15:31,610
of your store it's part of your faith

367
00:15:36,100 --> 00:15:33,200
but then I realized afterwards that it's

368
00:15:38,380 --> 00:15:36,110
not the in fact that the afterlife is

369
00:15:41,230 --> 00:15:38,390
not really discussed that much in most

370
00:15:43,900 --> 00:15:41,240
of the British folks its apart from

371
00:15:46,330 --> 00:15:43,910
Jesus and Christ and you know and you

372
00:15:47,890 --> 00:15:46,340
know the the resurrection but they

373
00:15:50,110 --> 00:15:47,900
nobody really talks about what happens

374
00:15:52,750 --> 00:15:50,120
to where's our souls from me when we go

375
00:15:55,390 --> 00:15:52,760
you know it's all so yes I said they're

376
00:15:58,150 --> 00:15:55,400
very different sort of lockdown sort of

377
00:16:00,460 --> 00:15:58,160
faith in if you're not yeah but hey hey

378
00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:00,470
I mean that a lot of I don't like to not

379
00:16:04,180 --> 00:16:02,210
people who do have a faithful because

380
00:16:05,620 --> 00:16:04,190
most of them are really lovely people

381
00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:05,630
you know I mean it's there's been times

382
00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:07,370
I've gone into churches sense you know

383
00:16:10,060 --> 00:16:08,810
and I say well they're really good you

384
00:16:12,460 --> 00:16:10,070
know they're really good kind-hearted

385
00:16:14,830 --> 00:16:12,470
Souls and giving but if only they would

386
00:16:17,950 --> 00:16:14,840
just you know if I could just walk in

387
00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:17,960
and just do one talk to the more and in

388
00:16:21,430 --> 00:16:20,090
the congregation and just chat not to

389
00:16:23,410 --> 00:16:21,440
try and convert them or anything like

390
00:16:25,030 --> 00:16:23,420
that because that's definitely not not

391
00:16:27,730 --> 00:16:25,040
what I'm about you know I don't want to

392
00:16:29,610 --> 00:16:27,740
convert anybody you know I just I just

393
00:16:31,210 --> 00:16:29,620
want to talk about what I saw and what I

394
00:16:33,550 --> 00:16:31,220
experienced because it's such a

395
00:16:36,330 --> 00:16:33,560
beautiful thing that awaits us all you

396
00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:36,340
know that I feel and can only help us

397
00:16:43,300 --> 00:16:40,370
overcome this stigma have been the idea

398
00:16:47,500 --> 00:16:43,310
of death you know one of the cool things

399
00:16:49,410 --> 00:16:47,510
that I think the Brits do have is this

400
00:16:52,110 --> 00:16:49,420
the spiritualist Church

401
00:16:56,970 --> 00:16:52,120
tradition and we have it here in the US

402
00:16:59,160 --> 00:16:56,980
but it's like way very very small and

403
00:17:01,920 --> 00:16:59,170
not talked about much in you stumble

404
00:17:04,290 --> 00:17:01,930
into a spiritualist Church early on

405
00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:04,300
before the end EE right don't you get it

406
00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:06,970
for that's right yeah yeah I was because

407
00:17:11,069 --> 00:17:09,250
I was traveling out to see my sister she

408
00:17:13,050 --> 00:17:11,079
did invited me up for the weekend

409
00:17:15,780 --> 00:17:13,060
and I was on the train and I bumped into

410
00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:15,790
an elderly couple sat opposite me I mean

411
00:17:18,810 --> 00:17:17,290
not chatting they would wanted to know

412
00:17:21,329 --> 00:17:18,820
where the next station was and things

413
00:17:23,220 --> 00:17:21,339
and then this lady turned around to me

414
00:17:26,310 --> 00:17:23,230
and said look we're going to see a

415
00:17:27,750 --> 00:17:26,320
medium okay and I just didn't want to

416
00:17:29,730 --> 00:17:27,760
get involved in the conversation I was

417
00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:29,740
kind of like was in my own at that point

418
00:17:33,270 --> 00:17:31,090
I just wanted to like just being myself

419
00:17:36,530 --> 00:17:33,280
but you kept coming back and chatting to

420
00:17:39,180 --> 00:17:36,540
me and she said she handed me a flyer

421
00:17:41,970 --> 00:17:39,190
like a small post where she got off the

422
00:17:44,670 --> 00:17:41,980
train with the details for this thing on

423
00:17:46,410 --> 00:17:44,680
so I thought okay so I just put it in my

424
00:17:48,690 --> 00:17:46,420
pocket forgot all about it and I

425
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:48,700
remember getting to my sisters and the

426
00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:50,650
family were all doing their own thing

427
00:17:54,990 --> 00:17:52,690
and my sister was cooking and stuff so I

428
00:17:56,490 --> 00:17:55,000
thought you know what I'm gonna go I'm

429
00:17:59,160 --> 00:17:56,500
gonna go to this thing and see what it's

430
00:18:01,890 --> 00:17:59,170
about so I went and it was packed it was

431
00:18:03,930 --> 00:18:01,900
like a small church and and I sat there

432
00:18:05,940 --> 00:18:03,940
and everyone was going there - trying to

433
00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:05,950
get messages from loved ones who just

434
00:18:10,020 --> 00:18:08,290
passed over you know and so there's all

435
00:18:12,120 --> 00:18:10,030
things like yeah I'm picking up your

436
00:18:14,340 --> 00:18:12,130
grandfather he's got a watch here is

437
00:18:16,890 --> 00:18:14,350
that right and it was amazing they were

438
00:18:19,260 --> 00:18:16,900
like bang on you know and I've got no

439
00:18:21,030 --> 00:18:19,270
reason to go at all I wasn't looking for

440
00:18:24,270 --> 00:18:21,040
a message but she turned around this

441
00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:24,280
medium dudes very animated CD stops as

442
00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:26,770
she went man in the blue jumper I'm

443
00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:29,530
gonna miss it for you okay and she said

444
00:18:32,850 --> 00:18:30,810
that your life is about to change

445
00:18:35,850 --> 00:18:32,860
they're telling me it's about to change

446
00:18:37,170 --> 00:18:35,860
it's gonna be big be ready for it and I

447
00:18:38,550 --> 00:18:37,180
said oh and what way is it going to

448
00:18:40,410 --> 00:18:38,560
change my thinking around you know is

449
00:18:41,580 --> 00:18:40,420
the money gonna start coming in there

450
00:18:43,710 --> 00:18:41,590
you know there's all these different

451
00:18:46,380 --> 00:18:43,720
things she said they're not telling me

452
00:18:49,650 --> 00:18:46,390
but you'll be protected and that was it

453
00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:49,660
and so I went off thinking that you know

454
00:18:53,670 --> 00:18:52,210
at that point I was looking for a

455
00:18:55,590 --> 00:18:53,680
relationship to start with somebody

456
00:18:57,510 --> 00:18:55,600
never they never came in at all nothing

457
00:18:59,970 --> 00:18:57,520
none of those things happened but then I

458
00:19:00,600 --> 00:18:59,980
realized that after my NDE that's what

459
00:19:03,220 --> 00:19:00,610
it was about

460
00:19:04,830 --> 00:19:03,230
that's what message was before so I was

461
00:19:07,570 --> 00:19:04,840
to try and find that church again

462
00:19:08,950 --> 00:19:07,580
because I thought those people will

463
00:19:10,570 --> 00:19:08,960
probably want to hear about it you know

464
00:19:12,990 --> 00:19:10,580
and they did as soon as I walked in

465
00:19:15,220 --> 00:19:13,000
their home and found it they just wanted

466
00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:15,230
you know they took it straight on but

467
00:19:18,669 --> 00:19:16,610
it's like they knew about it again yeah

468
00:19:20,919 --> 00:19:18,679
yeah yeah near-death experience yeah

469
00:19:22,750 --> 00:19:20,929
we've heard of those they had heard

470
00:19:27,730 --> 00:19:22,760
about yours David because it was all

471
00:19:31,630 --> 00:19:27,740
over the news there everyone rides the

472
00:19:33,100 --> 00:19:31,640
train everyone that's their worst fear I

473
00:19:35,289 --> 00:19:33,110
know I couldn't believe it you know I

474
00:19:37,180 --> 00:19:35,299
was lying in hospital you know and my my

475
00:19:39,370 --> 00:19:37,190
surgeon was coming annex day and he was

476
00:19:41,169 --> 00:19:39,380
going uh you're in the Guardians the day

477
00:19:43,990 --> 00:19:41,179
you're in you know you're in the time so

478
00:19:45,700 --> 00:19:44,000
I might go what's in it and then the TV

479
00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:45,710
guys wanted to come and interview me and

480
00:19:50,740 --> 00:19:48,770
like it all got like really crazy you

481
00:19:52,780 --> 00:19:50,750
know and and I thought I found it so

482
00:19:54,549 --> 00:19:52,790
amusing because I was it was keeping me

483
00:19:57,190 --> 00:19:54,559
going it was really enjoyable that I was

484
00:19:59,500 --> 00:19:57,200
in this hospital room you know unable to

485
00:20:03,880 --> 00:19:59,510
move by thinking this is brilliant you

486
00:20:06,730 --> 00:20:03,890
know so yeah a spiritualist Church thing

487
00:20:10,299 --> 00:20:06,740
I mean like that's the stuff I'm so

488
00:20:12,190 --> 00:20:10,309
interested in and you are too and you go

489
00:20:15,850 --> 00:20:12,200
back to them and you have some amazing

490
00:20:17,650 --> 00:20:15,860
healing experiences and I'm gonna show

491
00:20:18,909 --> 00:20:17,660
people one of the quotes I had from the

492
00:20:21,039 --> 00:20:18,919
book and I'm gonna put it up on the

493
00:20:24,130 --> 00:20:21,049
screen if anyone's watching they can see

494
00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:24,140
this amazing artwork that you've done

495
00:20:29,289 --> 00:20:27,290
and again keep in mind when people go

496
00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:29,299
and look at this this is something you

497
00:20:35,260 --> 00:20:32,570
never had any inclination for no

498
00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:35,270
experience no training in and you come

499
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:36,530
out and you start doing these large

500
00:20:42,909 --> 00:20:40,250
pieces that just one in a million

501
00:20:45,039 --> 00:20:42,919
could could kind of produce this stuff

502
00:20:47,950 --> 00:20:45,049
but here's the quote I thought this was

503
00:20:50,110 --> 00:20:47,960
amazing from well you can tell me who

504
00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:50,120
it's from but it was a woman who did a

505
00:20:54,340 --> 00:20:51,650
healing session for you at the

506
00:20:57,340 --> 00:20:54,350
spiritualist Church it's essential to

507
00:21:01,930 --> 00:20:57,350
understand that spirit doesn't show up

508
00:21:04,930 --> 00:21:01,940
here except through us ultimately it

509
00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:04,940
must come through us to manifest in the

510
00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:07,730
world that's why it's so easy for us to

511
00:21:13,450 --> 00:21:11,690
create hell in this life terrible things

512
00:21:16,830 --> 00:21:13,460
are happening right now everywhere

513
00:21:20,310 --> 00:21:16,840
around us but hell exists here on

514
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:20,320
only because people are still working

515
00:21:27,779 --> 00:21:25,450
out the hell within themselves Chuck for

516
00:21:31,259 --> 00:21:27,789
a minute about this healing session and

517
00:21:34,739 --> 00:21:31,269
if you want to about that quote yeah

518
00:21:38,009 --> 00:21:34,749
well joy is the healer and she's amazing

519
00:21:40,499 --> 00:21:38,019
because a lot of the stuff that she told

520
00:21:41,879 --> 00:21:40,509
me like for example that she would also

521
00:21:44,789 --> 00:21:41,889
tell me afterwards that that came

522
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:44,799
through by a spirit because I would be

523
00:21:47,909 --> 00:21:46,450
in the healing session it is a really

524
00:21:49,739 --> 00:21:47,919
beautiful peaceful place it's almost

525
00:21:51,869 --> 00:21:49,749
like a meditative state and you're sat

526
00:21:54,029 --> 00:21:51,879
there and it's kind of like a hands-on

527
00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:54,039
healing just not starting or you know

528
00:21:58,440 --> 00:21:55,570
your shoulders working or any product

529
00:21:59,940 --> 00:21:58,450
and the heal is a they're like guide so

530
00:22:02,070 --> 00:21:59,950
it's sort of like sorry they're not

531
00:22:03,810 --> 00:22:02,080
guides they draw in to their guides and

532
00:22:05,549 --> 00:22:03,820
their guy it's sent through the healing

533
00:22:10,049 --> 00:22:05,559
energy through their hands and through

534
00:22:12,450 --> 00:22:10,059
in meditate form as well so she would

535
00:22:13,489 --> 00:22:12,460
picking up an awful lot of stuff and

536
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:13,499
it's like there's almost like

537
00:22:17,340 --> 00:22:15,490
transmissions from the other side all

538
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:17,350
these messages so it just like really

539
00:22:22,859 --> 00:22:19,690
banned and which is really incredible

540
00:22:24,899 --> 00:22:22,869
because when I speak for say just before

541
00:22:27,810 --> 00:22:24,909
a session she didn't come across as like

542
00:22:29,489 --> 00:22:27,820
as a very profound person so it was you

543
00:22:30,930 --> 00:22:29,499
could tell that a lot of it was

544
00:22:34,409 --> 00:22:30,940
definitely coming from somewhere else

545
00:22:36,690 --> 00:22:34,419
and so I learned an awful lot from her

546
00:22:39,060 --> 00:22:36,700
because I learnt an awful lot about it

547
00:22:41,249 --> 00:22:39,070
and it all tied in with my near-death

548
00:22:44,190 --> 00:22:41,259
experience as well because I what I'd

549
00:22:45,899 --> 00:22:44,200
learned from the experience all made

550
00:22:47,879 --> 00:22:45,909
sense so it's kind of like there was

551
00:22:51,090 --> 00:22:47,889
almost like these kind of like moments

552
00:22:52,769 --> 00:22:51,100
of affirmation but also making me go oh

553
00:22:55,769 --> 00:22:52,779
yeah that's what happened there that's

554
00:22:57,269 --> 00:22:55,779
why that happened so you know I mean I

555
00:22:59,369 --> 00:22:57,279
maybe I should taught you through the

556
00:23:01,830 --> 00:22:59,379
mid Deaf experience itself and chat

557
00:23:04,619 --> 00:23:01,840
about what happened there might help to

558
00:23:08,399 --> 00:23:04,629
explain a bit more sure please do David

559
00:23:10,409 --> 00:23:08,409
whatever you think yeah um I mean

560
00:23:12,389 --> 00:23:10,419
basically what happened to me was I was

561
00:23:14,580 --> 00:23:12,399
it was at the point at where the

562
00:23:16,799 --> 00:23:14,590
paramedics had rushed me into hospital

563
00:23:18,749 --> 00:23:16,809
from picking me up off the rail track

564
00:23:19,859 --> 00:23:18,759
and there and we had arrived in the

565
00:23:21,749 --> 00:23:19,869
hospital and I remember seeing like

566
00:23:23,909 --> 00:23:21,759
there was a whole team of you know

567
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:23,919
surgeons and doctors and nurses all

568
00:23:28,169 --> 00:23:25,450
waiting for me look like this big

569
00:23:30,630 --> 00:23:28,179
semicircle and and I went and they were

570
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:30,640
rushing around I was losing coke

571
00:23:33,990 --> 00:23:31,930
and that's of blood at that point and

572
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:34,000
running around just trying to save me

573
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:36,970
and I remember my family had come in is

574
00:23:39,630 --> 00:23:38,410
why they were there so quick and I

575
00:23:41,820 --> 00:23:39,640
remember they were all chatting around

576
00:23:43,770 --> 00:23:41,830
me my family and they were my mother was

577
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:43,780
in tears you know everyone was totally

578
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:45,690
distressed so it was a very stressful

579
00:23:52,850 --> 00:23:48,850
scenario and then I suddenly went from

580
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:52,860
that place to a really beautiful sort of

581
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:55,450
like I thought it was a darkened room at

582
00:23:59,070 --> 00:23:56,890
first it was like a really comforting

583
00:24:00,750 --> 00:23:59,080
place it felt like a darkened room but

584
00:24:03,650 --> 00:24:00,760
and I was just lay there and I suddenly

585
00:24:06,780 --> 00:24:03,660
all the pain had gone all the noise

586
00:24:09,660 --> 00:24:06,790
overload and sand overloaded disappeared

587
00:24:11,430 --> 00:24:09,670
and I was this is silence and then there

588
00:24:13,410 --> 00:24:11,440
was these beautiful orbs that were like

589
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:13,420
kind of like pulsating all around me all

590
00:24:19,050 --> 00:24:15,610
different colors like Amber's and greens

591
00:24:23,460 --> 00:24:19,060
and yellows and I thought wow this is

592
00:24:25,530 --> 00:24:23,470
amazing and I just laid my head back and

593
00:24:27,930 --> 00:24:25,540
I realized I was laid on what was like a

594
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:27,940
huge for the slate rock if you like it

595
00:24:32,130 --> 00:24:30,250
was almost like I can alter hers like a

596
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:32,140
medieval altar or something you know and

597
00:24:35,850 --> 00:24:33,970
but it felt very comfortable to be laid

598
00:24:37,350 --> 00:24:35,860
on this here in your NDE but what was

599
00:24:39,510 --> 00:24:37,360
your vantage point how are you looking

600
00:24:41,490 --> 00:24:39,520
at it yeah yeah I was in my body because

601
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:41,500
that was one of the first things that I

602
00:24:47,310 --> 00:24:43,930
did was I realized where I was I

603
00:24:50,370 --> 00:24:47,320
suddenly looked at my body to see how it

604
00:24:51,750 --> 00:24:50,380
was looking and all the wounds healed I

605
00:24:53,670 --> 00:24:51,760
could disappear I was just coming in

606
00:24:54,900 --> 00:24:53,680
like a blue cloth so there's no clothing

607
00:24:57,840 --> 00:24:54,910
on me there's just not this blue

608
00:25:00,450 --> 00:24:57,850
beautiful so satin sort of sheet that

609
00:25:03,570 --> 00:25:00,460
was like really cool but comforting and

610
00:25:05,250 --> 00:25:03,580
I looked down and my everything all the

611
00:25:07,980 --> 00:25:05,260
cuts and bruises and rips and everything

612
00:25:10,260 --> 00:25:07,990
was it healed yeah my left arm had been

613
00:25:13,470 --> 00:25:10,270
said that in the accidents and that was

614
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:13,480
I was still back in place so I was I

615
00:25:20,270 --> 00:25:16,090
definitely felt like I was in my body

616
00:25:23,430 --> 00:25:20,280
and so it was like me in another

617
00:25:26,490 --> 00:25:23,440
dimension which I believed was actually

618
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:26,500
but I died I thought this is it I passed

619
00:25:31,380 --> 00:25:28,930
on this is I'm hip that's over here I am

620
00:25:33,210 --> 00:25:31,390
in the next phase but I I had no sense

621
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:33,220
of fear or anguish about it I actually

622
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:35,530
felt so comfortable there that I I

623
00:25:40,860 --> 00:25:38,650
accepted it readily but it was at that

624
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:40,870
point that I felt there was a presence

625
00:25:45,250 --> 00:25:43,250
with me you know you know you sense

626
00:25:47,170 --> 00:25:45,260
once behind you all have you look you

627
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:47,180
know but this wasn't behind it was it

628
00:25:51,700 --> 00:25:48,890
was like an androgynous being a

629
00:25:54,010 --> 00:25:51,710
beautiful being this was stood at my

630
00:25:57,250 --> 00:25:54,020
right feet and just staring at me and

631
00:25:58,720 --> 00:25:57,260
the odd thing is that this being a call

632
00:26:01,090 --> 00:25:58,730
like a being of light because it was

633
00:26:02,770 --> 00:26:01,100
like had this beautiful blond white hair

634
00:26:07,930 --> 00:26:02,780
but the skin was like sort of like

635
00:26:10,630 --> 00:26:07,940
glowing and the expression on the bangs

636
00:26:13,420 --> 00:26:10,640
face was like this beautiful I was like

637
00:26:15,370 --> 00:26:13,430
on like a knowing smile like like I'd

638
00:26:17,410 --> 00:26:15,380
known this person throughout my whole

639
00:26:19,870 --> 00:26:17,420
life or input in fact beyond that you

640
00:26:22,360 --> 00:26:19,880
know it was like a soulmate of gifts and

641
00:26:25,690 --> 00:26:22,370
I felt that I was being cared for and

642
00:26:27,580 --> 00:26:25,700
protected and I thought what was really

643
00:26:29,830 --> 00:26:27,590
quite amazing so I just kind of laid my

644
00:26:33,010 --> 00:26:29,840
head back and then I looked up and I saw

645
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:33,020
like three grids of pure white light

646
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:36,050
above me and and I remember lying there

647
00:26:40,090 --> 00:26:37,730
looking in sin that life and I just

648
00:26:41,740 --> 00:26:40,100
couldn't take my gaze away normally it'd

649
00:26:43,030 --> 00:26:41,750
be the kind of bright white light that

650
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:43,040
you would be able to look into like an

651
00:26:47,650 --> 00:26:45,410
elective for a restless trip or the

652
00:26:49,180 --> 00:26:47,660
sunlight even you know but I kept

653
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:49,190
looking at this and it just felt like it

654
00:26:54,730 --> 00:26:50,690
was healing me and I felt all this

655
00:26:56,530 --> 00:26:54,740
energy coming from that light and I just

656
00:26:59,860 --> 00:26:56,540
thought this is really beautiful then I

657
00:27:03,040 --> 00:26:59,870
suddenly then was aware of two other

658
00:27:05,290 --> 00:27:03,050
beings either side of me and to female

659
00:27:07,630 --> 00:27:05,300
form one of the most white Caucasian I

660
00:27:10,540 --> 00:27:07,640
guess and the other one was Asian

661
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:10,550
American Indian and and they were they

662
00:27:15,100 --> 00:27:12,290
had their hands kind of like hovering

663
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:15,110
very slowly over my body and I felt this

664
00:27:21,550 --> 00:27:17,450
sensation that they were healing me it

665
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:21,560
was almost like a form of Reiki or all

666
00:27:24,940 --> 00:27:22,970
the spiritual healing in fact which had

667
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:24,950
never had up till that point you know

668
00:27:29,980 --> 00:27:27,890
and but the energy that was coming from

669
00:27:32,470 --> 00:27:29,990
all three of these beings was just like

670
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:32,480
fewer love it was just like this energy

671
00:27:38,290 --> 00:27:35,930
of I've got compressed love all the

672
00:27:39,940 --> 00:27:38,300
different types of love you experience

673
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:39,950
in your life whether it's from through

674
00:27:43,870 --> 00:27:42,050
your lover or your mother your father or

675
00:27:45,970 --> 00:27:43,880
even your pet cat like you've got you

676
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:45,980
know and it's all of those sites hadler

677
00:27:51,010 --> 00:27:47,690
for condensed and that it was just

678
00:27:52,930 --> 00:27:51,020
amazing and like it was like a form of

679
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:52,940
love that was just like I could feel it

680
00:27:55,500 --> 00:27:54,530
running through me through my heart

681
00:28:00,000 --> 00:27:55,510
through my whole

682
00:28:01,650 --> 00:28:00,010
being and it was I felt at that point

683
00:28:03,390 --> 00:28:01,660
that I was being prepared on this for

684
00:28:04,860 --> 00:28:03,400
something I thought something what are

685
00:28:07,650 --> 00:28:04,870
they doing what's going on here and I

686
00:28:09,270 --> 00:28:07,660
felt like I must be getting ready to go

687
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:09,280
on to the next stage of something you

688
00:28:14,250 --> 00:28:12,970
know and and then I am suddenly thought

689
00:28:15,750 --> 00:28:14,260
about my family because as I said

690
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:15,760
earlier I knew that they were all

691
00:28:18,360 --> 00:28:17,650
frantically sort of looking over me in

692
00:28:20,850 --> 00:28:18,370
the hospital

693
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:20,860
in the in the emergency department so I

694
00:28:25,050 --> 00:28:22,690
thought I wonder how they're doing and

695
00:28:27,060 --> 00:28:25,060
so I kind of figured I'd if I looked

696
00:28:29,820 --> 00:28:27,070
over the edge of this kind of like huge

697
00:28:31,980 --> 00:28:29,830
rocks that I would see them but I didn't

698
00:28:34,590 --> 00:28:31,990
see them but what I did see was this the

699
00:28:37,980 --> 00:28:34,600
most amazing sight it was like it it's

700
00:28:40,890 --> 00:28:37,990
like a huge waterfall of stars curving

701
00:28:42,750 --> 00:28:40,900
ran in a huge curve and all these stars

702
00:28:44,850 --> 00:28:42,760
were just like cascading down and they

703
00:28:47,370 --> 00:28:44,860
were just sparkling into this beautiful

704
00:28:49,230 --> 00:28:47,380
sort of like sort of this you know like

705
00:28:51,150 --> 00:28:49,240
that was just and I look down and think

706
00:28:53,820 --> 00:28:51,160
they seem to be disappearing into other

707
00:28:55,770 --> 00:28:53,830
galaxies and other dimensions it was

708
00:28:57,960 --> 00:28:55,780
just so spectacular and then of

709
00:29:00,060 --> 00:28:57,970
beautiful colors as I looked down

710
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:00,070
further and and it's quite interesting

711
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:02,650
because some of the ice bends Hubble

712
00:29:07,410 --> 00:29:04,330
have been running up all these

713
00:29:08,610 --> 00:29:07,420
photographs quite recently new parts of

714
00:29:11,910 --> 00:29:08,620
the universe they've never seen before

715
00:29:15,900 --> 00:29:11,920
and it's amazing because the it's almost

716
00:29:17,550 --> 00:29:15,910
like was what I saw in my NDE which is

717
00:29:19,260 --> 00:29:17,560
amazing because I also started painting

718
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:19,270
on a song that in my in deed and I've

719
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:21,370
had I had friends phoning up to them

720
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:23,050
this week said have you seen the new

721
00:29:28,230 --> 00:29:24,850
Hubble things it's your painting so I

722
00:29:30,660 --> 00:29:28,240
know it's it's um it's incredible so

723
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:30,670
anyhow sorry I digress there but I just

724
00:29:34,860 --> 00:29:32,010
had to put that in because it was just

725
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:34,870
again a moment of affirmation well

726
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:36,610
there's so many there's so many

727
00:29:41,390 --> 00:29:39,610
jumping-off points there that it's tough

728
00:29:43,710 --> 00:29:41,400
because and that's where I guess the I

729
00:29:44,790 --> 00:29:43,720
don't want to use the term science and

730
00:29:47,970 --> 00:29:44,800
kind of take people in the wrong

731
00:29:50,220 --> 00:29:47,980
direction but to try and organize what

732
00:29:51,780 --> 00:29:50,230
you're saying there's so many different

733
00:29:52,380 --> 00:29:51,790
parts that I don't quite know where to

734
00:29:56,570 --> 00:29:52,390
begin

735
00:30:00,240 --> 00:29:56,580
one would be tying back to the

736
00:30:02,340 --> 00:30:00,250
synchronicity of needing somebody on the

737
00:30:05,250 --> 00:30:02,350
train then handing you a brochure you

738
00:30:07,890 --> 00:30:05,260
having no interest in it but you go I

739
00:30:09,210 --> 00:30:07,900
mean that's strange you being picked out

740
00:30:11,190 --> 00:30:09,220
of the crowd in being

741
00:30:15,390 --> 00:30:11,200
giving a message that's strange the

742
00:30:18,539 --> 00:30:15,400
message you're given is just it's just

743
00:30:22,169 --> 00:30:18,549
too crazy to almost believe it sounds

744
00:30:24,899 --> 00:30:22,179
like a made-up story you know your life

745
00:30:29,310 --> 00:30:24,909
is gonna change but you're gonna be okay

746
00:30:31,110 --> 00:30:29,320
you're protected and then you you go

747
00:30:33,149 --> 00:30:31,120
through this incredible life-changing

748
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:33,159
experience it should kill you by all

749
00:30:38,220 --> 00:30:35,890
accounts yeah and you're protected what

750
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:38,230
is what is your understanding at this

751
00:30:43,380 --> 00:30:40,090
point and you talk about this in the

752
00:30:48,750 --> 00:30:43,390
book but let's talk about it here what's

753
00:30:52,740 --> 00:30:48,760
your understanding of fate of our life

754
00:30:56,070 --> 00:30:52,750
being predetermined free will all those

755
00:30:59,250 --> 00:30:56,080
things are somewhat your reconcilable

756
00:31:01,260 --> 00:30:59,260
even within your story but how are you

757
00:31:03,930 --> 00:31:01,270
understanding some of those things now

758
00:31:08,100 --> 00:31:03,940
well since all this has happened my take

759
00:31:10,470 --> 00:31:08,110
on it is is we have it's like our lives

760
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:10,480
are predestined probably before we're

761
00:31:14,490 --> 00:31:12,970
actually born into this world and the

762
00:31:17,130 --> 00:31:14,500
way I say it's almost like it's like a

763
00:31:19,919 --> 00:31:17,140
highway and that's that's our that's our

764
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:19,929
map a road map you know and we're all

765
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:22,770
tempted to take routes off that highway

766
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:25,450
think that's gonna be the road that's

767
00:31:29,909 --> 00:31:27,010
going to lead us to freedom and

768
00:31:32,580 --> 00:31:29,919
happiness and yeah all the riches we

769
00:31:35,250 --> 00:31:32,590
want but we go down those roads and then

770
00:31:36,870 --> 00:31:35,260
they are not the ones for us and I took

771
00:31:40,380 --> 00:31:36,880
too many of those roads I think on my

772
00:31:42,659 --> 00:31:40,390
journey and my take on it is is I've I

773
00:31:44,970 --> 00:31:42,669
feel that I'd hit such a low point in my

774
00:31:47,070 --> 00:31:44,980
life you know it was like the dark night

775
00:31:49,710 --> 00:31:47,080
of the soul if you like that I gone in

776
00:31:51,539 --> 00:31:49,720
so deep that the only way I was going to

777
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:51,549
come out of this was for something very

778
00:31:55,529 --> 00:31:53,770
dramatic to happen like that train

779
00:31:57,990 --> 00:31:55,539
accident and that everything was

780
00:32:01,289 --> 00:31:58,000
predestined to lead me towards that

781
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:01,299
point because don't you see I mean

782
00:32:05,250 --> 00:32:03,250
there's kind of an implicit character

783
00:32:07,409 --> 00:32:05,260
addiction what you just said number one

784
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:07,419
we need to understand what those deep

785
00:32:10,500 --> 00:32:09,010
dark things are all right you must know

786
00:32:12,029 --> 00:32:10,510
some really horrible things because it

787
00:32:14,490 --> 00:32:12,039
doesn't sound like it from all accounts

788
00:32:15,299 --> 00:32:14,500
other than playing in punk rock man but

789
00:32:17,100 --> 00:32:15,309
I don't even know if there's anything

790
00:32:18,570 --> 00:32:17,110
wrong with that but I don't know maybe

791
00:32:20,190 --> 00:32:18,580
you do have some really

792
00:32:22,519 --> 00:32:20,200
maybe you're doing satanic stuff from

793
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:22,529
the basement or something I don't know

794
00:32:26,730 --> 00:32:25,090
why is there the need for redemption if

795
00:32:28,830 --> 00:32:26,740
you're on your path why does the path

796
00:32:30,389 --> 00:32:28,840
need to change why does the healing need

797
00:32:31,889 --> 00:32:30,399
to take place why are they doing

798
00:32:34,019 --> 00:32:31,899
anything that would be the question

799
00:32:36,090 --> 00:32:34,029
right like if it all is just an

800
00:32:39,180 --> 00:32:36,100
experience why do anything why does the

801
00:32:41,130 --> 00:32:39,190
Native American Asian person have to get

802
00:32:43,399 --> 00:32:41,140
together and do some heavy-duty Reiki on

803
00:32:46,799 --> 00:32:43,409
you to put you back why why why because

804
00:32:49,980 --> 00:32:46,809
because I was destroying myself I wasn't

805
00:32:53,430 --> 00:32:49,990
I wasn't doing any dark sort of stuff it

806
00:32:55,830 --> 00:32:53,440
was just the darkness was just my

807
00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:55,840
depression I was drinking too much I was

808
00:32:59,279 --> 00:32:57,250
drinking heavily and that was just

809
00:33:01,769 --> 00:32:59,289
taking me right there and you know it's

810
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:01,779
beating myself up big time and so it was

811
00:33:07,649 --> 00:33:04,210
just what I'm trying to say is is it

812
00:33:09,899 --> 00:33:07,659
that they felt right okay he's not a bad

813
00:33:13,110 --> 00:33:09,909
guy this guy needs to be pulled out of

814
00:33:14,460 --> 00:33:13,120
this mess that he's going self into and

815
00:33:17,070 --> 00:33:14,470
he was just pulling me out of that and

816
00:33:19,740 --> 00:33:17,080
bringing me back onto the track that I

817
00:33:21,930 --> 00:33:19,750
that was meant for me which I feel now

818
00:33:24,299 --> 00:33:21,940
I'm back on that on the highway and I

819
00:33:26,909 --> 00:33:24,309
follow it there you know I'm not really

820
00:33:29,009 --> 00:33:26,919
tempted by too many of those those roads

821
00:33:30,750 --> 00:33:29,019
are saying hey come and take this road

822
00:33:33,269 --> 00:33:30,760
you know so that's what I'm trying to

823
00:33:35,519 --> 00:33:33,279
say so it's it's it's you know the

824
00:33:37,049 --> 00:33:35,529
phrase dark night of the soul

825
00:33:38,519 --> 00:33:37,059
if you not heard that phrase it's

826
00:33:40,590 --> 00:33:38,529
holding absolutely and I love the way

827
00:33:43,409 --> 00:33:40,600
you put it I read a note from the book

828
00:33:46,259 --> 00:33:43,419
that gets to this and to remember that

829
00:33:49,649 --> 00:33:46,269
we live in a universe that offers

830
00:33:53,070 --> 00:33:49,659
Redemption perhaps that was the purpose

831
00:33:53,820 --> 00:33:53,080
of the message and I think that's what

832
00:33:56,039 --> 00:33:53,830
you're talking about you're talking

833
00:33:57,899 --> 00:33:56,049
about a redemption story but the art

834
00:34:04,490 --> 00:33:57,909
piece that goes with this is a very

835
00:34:08,460 --> 00:34:04,500
Jesus looking figure with almost a UFO

836
00:34:09,570 --> 00:34:08,470
over his head so talk about Redemption

837
00:34:12,780 --> 00:34:09,580
because that's what we were talking

838
00:34:14,129 --> 00:34:12,790
about basically as he rightly pointed

839
00:34:16,290 --> 00:34:14,139
out I wasn't really I didn't follow any

840
00:34:18,540 --> 00:34:16,300
faith for Christianity anything like

841
00:34:22,619 --> 00:34:18,550
that it wasn't it wasn't at all in my

842
00:34:25,349 --> 00:34:22,629
life but what happened next in my NDA

843
00:34:27,329 --> 00:34:25,359
was when I turned over after looking at

844
00:34:28,950 --> 00:34:27,339
that waterfall of stars I suddenly felt

845
00:34:31,139 --> 00:34:28,960
there was an even more powerful energy

846
00:34:32,879 --> 00:34:31,149
there was there was around me

847
00:34:35,250 --> 00:34:32,889
and that's when I looked and saw this

848
00:34:37,049 --> 00:34:35,260
huge tunnel of white light coming

849
00:34:39,059 --> 00:34:37,059
towards me and it was just slowly coming

850
00:34:40,859 --> 00:34:39,069
in and this tunnel of white light was

851
00:34:43,649 --> 00:34:40,869
just surrounded by all this kind of like

852
00:34:47,299 --> 00:34:43,659
slowly circulating flames of yellows and

853
00:34:49,919 --> 00:34:47,309
reds and and what have you earned and I

854
00:34:51,720 --> 00:34:49,929
the energy had come enough that it was

855
00:34:53,309 --> 00:34:51,730
like it just turned the dial at big time

856
00:34:56,129 --> 00:34:53,319
I could feel it like pulsating through

857
00:34:59,819 --> 00:34:56,139
every molecule in my body and I just

858
00:35:02,519 --> 00:34:59,829
straightaway thought that is that is God

859
00:35:03,750 --> 00:35:02,529
that's the energy of all creation that's

860
00:35:05,460 --> 00:35:03,760
where it's all coming from from this

861
00:35:07,799 --> 00:35:05,470
tunnel of white light with all the

862
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:07,809
flames it's not the the Michelangelo

863
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:10,210
sort of that's concealing image of God

864
00:35:15,150 --> 00:35:11,650
with the beard putting his hand there

865
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:15,160
that is it so for me it's I now have

866
00:35:20,940 --> 00:35:18,130
that I that's my faith but it's it's and

867
00:35:22,559 --> 00:35:20,950
Jesus coming into the fold there that

868
00:35:24,359 --> 00:35:22,569
happened because when I started going

869
00:35:26,220 --> 00:35:24,369
for the spiritual healing sessions one

870
00:35:28,140 --> 00:35:26,230
of the sessions I had I was lying there

871
00:35:31,019 --> 00:35:28,150
and I had for no reason at all

872
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:31,029
I had this image of Christ there looking

873
00:35:34,319 --> 00:35:32,890
at me while I was being healed and I

874
00:35:37,289 --> 00:35:34,329
thought nothing of it and then right at

875
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:37,299
the end joy the Hulett oh man I said you

876
00:35:40,980 --> 00:35:38,770
know you had Christ that next to you

877
00:35:42,720 --> 00:35:40,990
there's going what oh you know so I

878
00:35:44,190 --> 00:35:42,730
thought this is just too much so I've

879
00:35:47,339 --> 00:35:44,200
got to paint that so that's what I'd

880
00:35:50,490 --> 00:35:47,349
painted I've painted him and that seemed

881
00:35:52,529 --> 00:35:50,500
sort of floating above the river which

882
00:35:54,870 --> 00:35:52,539
is near where I live and and I wanted to

883
00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:54,880
paint Christ not in the usual form that

884
00:35:58,349 --> 00:35:56,650
we be seeing which is hanging off the

885
00:36:00,299 --> 00:35:58,359
cross which is the worst part of his

886
00:36:01,980 --> 00:36:00,309
life I thought let's paint him you know

887
00:36:04,950 --> 00:36:01,990
looking healthy and happy which is how I

888
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:04,960
saw him and I also wanted to give him I

889
00:36:08,970 --> 00:36:07,450
looked at all halos and all the

890
00:36:10,799 --> 00:36:08,980
difference so Renaissance paintings that

891
00:36:12,660 --> 00:36:10,809
Christ he's given and they just like

892
00:36:14,730 --> 00:36:12,670
this little fine white circle I thought

893
00:36:17,130 --> 00:36:14,740
no I want to give him this like credible

894
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:17,140
halo because you know it's a powerful

895
00:36:22,170 --> 00:36:20,650
image and it's I incorporated some of

896
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:22,180
the images that I was getting through

897
00:36:26,309 --> 00:36:24,130
from those healing sessions into that

898
00:36:29,339 --> 00:36:26,319
oiler and yes there's been quite a lot

899
00:36:31,740 --> 00:36:29,349
of UFO interpretations put in there but

900
00:36:34,109 --> 00:36:31,750
you know what it's it's okay because I

901
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:34,119
want that painting to sort of make

902
00:36:37,650 --> 00:36:35,890
people stop and I don't want it just to

903
00:36:39,450 --> 00:36:37,660
be an image of Christ and that others

904
00:36:41,430 --> 00:36:39,460
Christ I want people to think about it

905
00:36:42,599 --> 00:36:41,440
and chat about it one of the things I

906
00:36:44,460 --> 00:36:42,609
think is really interesting about that

907
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:44,470
and we've had this ongoing discussion

908
00:36:48,180 --> 00:36:44,890
about

909
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:48,190
like the Christ consciousness thing to

910
00:36:52,470 --> 00:36:50,530
me is an undeniable part of the

911
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:52,480
near-death experience and that it comes

912
00:36:57,030 --> 00:36:55,210
through again and again if you go to the

913
00:37:00,360 --> 00:36:57,040
researchers they go hey this is

914
00:37:02,250 --> 00:37:00,370
undeniable Christ seems to be coming

915
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:02,260
through when we look at Jesus

916
00:37:06,510 --> 00:37:04,210
historically he slips through our

917
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:06,520
fingers there's a good chance that he

918
00:37:09,630 --> 00:37:07,930
doesn't exist

919
00:37:12,750 --> 00:37:09,640
certainly in the form that he's

920
00:37:15,900 --> 00:37:12,760
portrayed in the Bible and these other

921
00:37:18,780 --> 00:37:15,910
things he doesn't exist now I personally

922
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:18,790
David don't have a problem with that I

923
00:37:24,930 --> 00:37:22,210
am open to the idea that we do and can

924
00:37:27,650 --> 00:37:24,940
manifest everything but other people

925
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:27,660
have a very literal historical

926
00:37:31,950 --> 00:37:29,770
interpretation of that I wonder if

927
00:37:34,580 --> 00:37:31,960
you've given that any thought and what

928
00:37:37,380 --> 00:37:34,590
do you think if if someone was able to

929
00:37:40,650 --> 00:37:37,390
kind of lay out a bunch of biblical

930
00:37:42,390 --> 00:37:40,660
historical archaeological kind of stuff

931
00:37:45,870 --> 00:37:42,400
and say wow you know that Jesus figure

932
00:37:48,420 --> 00:37:45,880
doesn't doesn't really add up what does

933
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:48,430
that mean does that mean anything to you

934
00:37:53,820 --> 00:37:51,370
well the way I like my take on it is

935
00:37:56,460 --> 00:37:53,830
this is that he was around obviously at

936
00:37:58,890 --> 00:37:56,470
the time of the Romans and we never

937
00:38:01,350 --> 00:37:58,900
questioned for one minute that well if

938
00:38:03,570 --> 00:38:01,360
we have a history lesson on Caesar or

939
00:38:05,370 --> 00:38:03,580
Pontius Pilate that all those guys

940
00:38:07,140 --> 00:38:05,380
existed and we think yeah they existed

941
00:38:09,510 --> 00:38:07,150
and we see paintings of them and it's

942
00:38:11,580 --> 00:38:09,520
like yeah they existed in history we

943
00:38:13,530 --> 00:38:11,590
don't question it whereas with Jesus is

944
00:38:15,420 --> 00:38:13,540
this kind of thing well maybe he didn't

945
00:38:16,740 --> 00:38:15,430
exist there but you know but we do

946
00:38:18,060 --> 00:38:16,750
question it see I mean if you really

947
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:18,070
look into it like when you just said the

948
00:38:23,070 --> 00:38:20,890
history stuff like I'll just give you a

949
00:38:25,770 --> 00:38:23,080
small example like most of the history

950
00:38:29,180 --> 00:38:25,780
that Christians go to to say that Jesus

951
00:38:31,830 --> 00:38:29,190
is historical is they go to Josephus

952
00:38:34,470 --> 00:38:31,840
because you if Cephas was a Roman

953
00:38:36,780 --> 00:38:34,480
historian but there's no record if Jesus

954
00:38:40,260 --> 00:38:36,790
in there the one record we have is fake

955
00:38:44,630 --> 00:38:40,270
and then Josephus writings wind up in

956
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:44,640
the gospel in a very Pro Roman kind of

957
00:38:50,130 --> 00:38:47,530
reverse-engineered way I'm just saying

958
00:38:51,750 --> 00:38:50,140
historically no there's Jesus doesn't

959
00:38:53,940 --> 00:38:51,760
doesn't hold up it's just like Satan

960
00:38:56,310 --> 00:38:53,950
Satan completely slips through your

961
00:38:58,380 --> 00:38:56,320
fingers when you go back and look at you

962
00:39:01,860 --> 00:38:58,390
know the very early

963
00:39:04,350 --> 00:39:01,870
Judaic texts of Yahweh the Thunder God

964
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:04,360
there's no Satan in there and then the

965
00:39:08,940 --> 00:39:06,490
same stories are repeated afterwards

966
00:39:10,650 --> 00:39:08,950
maybe on the siphon baton is introduced

967
00:39:12,210 --> 00:39:10,660
well you can't you can't take one or the

968
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:12,220
other if we take your near-death

969
00:39:16,830 --> 00:39:15,370
experience literally as that you were in

970
00:39:17,790 --> 00:39:16,840
this dimension and these things really

971
00:39:19,860 --> 00:39:17,800
happened

972
00:39:21,090 --> 00:39:19,870
yeah well then we have a conflict with

973
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:21,100
thousands of other near-death

974
00:39:26,610 --> 00:39:23,890
experiences that look completely

975
00:39:28,500 --> 00:39:26,620
different I interviewed a guy dr.

976
00:39:31,020 --> 00:39:28,510
gregory shushan who's done this

977
00:39:34,340 --> 00:39:31,030
cross-cultural analysis of near-death

978
00:39:38,310 --> 00:39:34,350
experiences for me and I'm a spiritual

979
00:39:40,230 --> 00:39:38,320
believer I look at the similarities but

980
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:40,240
if you step back you can also look at

981
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:42,130
the differences and say well well no

982
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:44,770
one's right the people who just see who

983
00:39:49,170 --> 00:39:47,050
see Jesus and believe it's Jesus of this

984
00:39:51,300 --> 00:39:49,180
cross thing well they can't possibly be

985
00:39:55,050 --> 00:39:51,310
right because this isn't possibly right

986
00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:55,060
there is conflict complex but if Jesus

987
00:39:59,850 --> 00:39:57,130
did not say exist let's face it

988
00:40:02,340 --> 00:39:59,860
Christianity would have died and faded

989
00:40:04,110 --> 00:40:02,350
years ago but it didn't it just stayed

990
00:40:05,490 --> 00:40:04,120
around and it just grew and it's just

991
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:05,500
it's just you know I'm not trying to

992
00:40:09,300 --> 00:40:07,690
sort of like say hey you know Christians

993
00:40:11,310 --> 00:40:09,310
I'm not some different Christianity but

994
00:40:13,950 --> 00:40:11,320
I'm just trying to say that I can't

995
00:40:16,860 --> 00:40:13,960
imagine that it would still be around if

996
00:40:18,870 --> 00:40:16,870
this guy was just a myth it's the

997
00:40:21,150 --> 00:40:18,880
opposite of that if we understand

998
00:40:22,770 --> 00:40:21,160
Christianity the way we did like at the

999
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:22,780
beginning of the show if we understand

1000
00:40:27,660 --> 00:40:25,210
it as a social engineering mind control

1001
00:40:29,100 --> 00:40:27,670
project which it is I mean the Catholic

1002
00:40:31,050 --> 00:40:29,110
Church look at it now I mean it's

1003
00:40:34,620 --> 00:40:31,060
completely discredited in most people's

1004
00:40:36,720 --> 00:40:34,630
minds it is not an institution that's it

1005
00:40:39,330 --> 00:40:36,730
was the church for the longest time

1006
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:39,340
right if you go back to the beginning it

1007
00:40:44,610 --> 00:40:42,490
was always about controlling the people

1008
00:40:47,790 --> 00:40:44,620
if you look at Constantine when he first

1009
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:47,800
establishes a church in 412 he brings in

1010
00:40:51,930 --> 00:40:49,690
the feudal system and turns everyone

1011
00:40:55,290 --> 00:40:51,940
into slaves you can no longer own

1012
00:40:57,300 --> 00:40:55,300
property it's a control mechanism in the

1013
00:40:59,160 --> 00:40:57,310
same way that it's being used today and

1014
00:41:00,690 --> 00:40:59,170
then you know people who are more

1015
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:00,700
spiritually minded say well don't worry

1016
00:41:04,500 --> 00:41:02,290
about that you know look for this or

1017
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:04,510
look for that well you can but you also

1018
00:41:10,260 --> 00:41:06,490
have to consider the other aspects of it

1019
00:41:11,700 --> 00:41:10,270
I mean I don't know mm-hmm well that

1020
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:11,710
what course yeah

1021
00:41:14,940 --> 00:41:13,330
you have to consider the other aspects

1022
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:14,950
of it I mean I mean that was one of the

1023
00:41:19,140 --> 00:41:16,450
things I was very keen to do when I

1024
00:41:23,609 --> 00:41:19,150
first started writing the book I spoke

1025
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:23,619
to my co-writer and and she's she was

1026
00:41:27,780 --> 00:41:25,810
able to said look why don't you contact

1027
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:27,790
the hospital and find out you know or

1028
00:41:31,710 --> 00:41:29,530
the medication we were on at the time

1029
00:41:33,359 --> 00:41:31,720
and how that may have affected you

1030
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:33,369
whether it have been a mind-bending drug

1031
00:41:36,210 --> 00:41:34,450
and all those different things so he

1032
00:41:39,270 --> 00:41:36,220
went through all that and we discovered

1033
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:39,280
that because she's got teeth basically

1034
00:41:43,380 --> 00:41:41,770
she was lecturing in nursing so she knew

1035
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:43,390
what she was talking about co-star she

1036
00:41:48,890 --> 00:41:46,210
was qualified and so we she said yeah I

1037
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:48,900
mean from everything and yes there were

1038
00:41:52,859 --> 00:41:51,130
drugs that you were given that that

1039
00:41:54,900 --> 00:41:52,869
could have been hallucinating but they

1040
00:41:57,720 --> 00:41:54,910
were given afterwards not before you had

1041
00:41:59,579 --> 00:41:57,730
your NDE and and the other thing is as

1042
00:42:00,900 --> 00:41:59,589
well to go back to that to what you

1043
00:42:03,839 --> 00:42:00,910
talked about and that is that there's

1044
00:42:06,300 --> 00:42:03,849
been studies in people who have in DES

1045
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:06,310
and the difference being is is you know

1046
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:09,010
there's there's a lot of them intense

1047
00:42:13,770 --> 00:42:11,650
real consistency to their near-death

1048
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:13,780
experiences you know like mine stayed

1049
00:42:17,970 --> 00:42:16,330
with me and it says clear to me now as

1050
00:42:19,589 --> 00:42:17,980
it was then because it was real it

1051
00:42:19,859 --> 00:42:19,599
wasn't like a dream I know it wasn't a

1052
00:42:21,780 --> 00:42:19,869
dream

1053
00:42:24,240 --> 00:42:21,790
I know it wasn't a hallucination you

1054
00:42:25,650 --> 00:42:24,250
know I you know it's it's a totally

1055
00:42:27,859 --> 00:42:25,660
different thing whereas like people are

1056
00:42:30,990 --> 00:42:27,869
in dream states or what have you they

1057
00:42:32,460 --> 00:42:31,000
they they they go within minutes and not

1058
00:42:34,020 --> 00:42:32,470
only that that you know when they tell

1059
00:42:35,220 --> 00:42:34,030
the same dream again it's changed it's

1060
00:42:36,930 --> 00:42:35,230
like I had never said I thought you said

1061
00:42:38,609 --> 00:42:36,940
the guy would blue here walked in and

1062
00:42:40,230 --> 00:42:38,619
they you're saying is you know pink and

1063
00:42:42,329 --> 00:42:40,240
stuff you know it's it's a very

1064
00:42:44,670 --> 00:42:42,339
different thing so and I don't think

1065
00:42:46,410 --> 00:42:44,680
that most people who have had n DS would

1066
00:42:48,980 --> 00:42:46,420
be bothered to sort of just be talking

1067
00:42:51,810 --> 00:42:48,990
about it like I am now as much because

1068
00:42:53,460 --> 00:42:51,820
it's also think that for me as I said

1069
00:42:54,870 --> 00:42:53,470
earlier I don't particularly want to

1070
00:42:57,089 --> 00:42:54,880
sort of be trying to convert people

1071
00:43:01,710 --> 00:42:57,099
saying listen to me this is you know and

1072
00:43:04,170 --> 00:43:01,720
it's it's it's more you know I this is

1073
00:43:09,510 --> 00:43:04,180
what happened this is what I saw and and

1074
00:43:10,950 --> 00:43:09,520
it's it's this we we can't assume just

1075
00:43:12,810 --> 00:43:10,960
because we were a scientist when we've

1076
00:43:15,089 --> 00:43:12,820
got brilliant minds and we have a lot of

1077
00:43:17,220 --> 00:43:15,099
us have that that's it we've nailed it

1078
00:43:20,370 --> 00:43:17,230
we know the answers because I ain't be

1079
00:43:22,770 --> 00:43:20,380
in course you know X or whatever I mean

1080
00:43:24,329 --> 00:43:22,780
I'm totally with you but but here's the

1081
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:24,339
rubber here with that

1082
00:43:29,819 --> 00:43:27,130
you can't do what you said do the

1083
00:43:33,450 --> 00:43:29,829
scientism thing which I'm rail against

1084
00:43:35,519 --> 00:43:33,460
every week but you can't also say my

1085
00:43:38,519 --> 00:43:35,529
experience Trump's everyone else's

1086
00:43:40,469 --> 00:43:38,529
experience you can't say because I had

1087
00:43:42,630 --> 00:43:40,479
this experience and it's so important to

1088
00:43:45,299 --> 00:43:42,640
me I hold that dearly and that can be

1089
00:43:47,219 --> 00:43:45,309
the only truth and in that sense that's

1090
00:43:50,339 --> 00:43:47,229
the advantage of looking at near-death

1091
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:50,349
experiences across the board like I told

1092
00:43:55,709 --> 00:43:52,170
you there's nothing kind of more

1093
00:43:57,359 --> 00:43:55,719
offensive to me than fundamentalist

1094
00:43:59,700 --> 00:43:57,369
Christians who co-opt the near-death

1095
00:44:01,709 --> 00:43:59,710
experience for their religion and want

1096
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:01,719
to shut everyone else out and say all

1097
00:44:07,140 --> 00:44:04,450
the genuine near-death experiences have

1098
00:44:08,759 --> 00:44:07,150
Jesus and have all the rest of this and

1099
00:44:10,859 --> 00:44:08,769
if you didn't have those then your

1100
00:44:13,769 --> 00:44:10,869
experience is somehow lesser or

1101
00:44:15,900 --> 00:44:13,779
something I to me I I don't know how you

1102
00:44:17,370 --> 00:44:15,910
get there so what I'm interested in

1103
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:17,380
doing is climbing on top of those

1104
00:44:22,890 --> 00:44:19,690
experiences letting loose of them a

1105
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:22,900
little bit and seeing that okay you had

1106
00:44:29,999 --> 00:44:26,410
a realer than real experience that I

1107
00:44:32,190 --> 00:44:30,009
accept from my research is closer to the

1108
00:44:34,469 --> 00:44:32,200
ultimate reality than this [\h__\h]

1109
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:34,479
we're talking about here but I would

1110
00:44:39,269 --> 00:44:36,249
suggest to you that it's possible that

1111
00:44:44,729 --> 00:44:39,279
that that experience is still an

1112
00:44:47,489 --> 00:44:44,739
abstraction of a more ultimate reality

1113
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:47,499
you know and that in that realm you're

1114
00:44:53,029 --> 00:44:49,210
still that's the only way I can explain

1115
00:44:57,059 --> 00:44:53,039
it that you're still interpreting and

1116
00:44:59,849 --> 00:44:57,069
you know creating a reality in that

1117
00:45:01,529 --> 00:44:59,859
extended reality do you think that has

1118
00:45:03,779 --> 00:45:01,539
any possibility being true or do you

1119
00:45:06,150 --> 00:45:03,789
think where you were is the ultimate

1120
00:45:08,099 --> 00:45:06,160
reality yeah it was the ultimate reality

1121
00:45:10,140 --> 00:45:08,109
I know that to be the case there's

1122
00:45:12,269 --> 00:45:10,150
nothing else there's nothing else beyond

1123
00:45:16,349 --> 00:45:12,279
that it's I've never I've never

1124
00:45:18,870 --> 00:45:16,359
questioned that where was wasn't was an

1125
00:45:21,569 --> 00:45:18,880
you know some kind of dream or state it

1126
00:45:23,910 --> 00:45:21,579
was it was real but the other thing is I

1127
00:45:25,739 --> 00:45:23,920
think as well is that we can do all the

1128
00:45:28,019 --> 00:45:25,749
science in the world we can but there's

1129
00:45:30,420 --> 00:45:28,029
you know we don't understand the soul we

1130
00:45:31,650 --> 00:45:30,430
don't understand you know no scientist

1131
00:45:34,589 --> 00:45:31,660
can tell man and actually come up with

1132
00:45:36,900 --> 00:45:34,599
an equation as to why we feel loved you

1133
00:45:38,130 --> 00:45:36,910
know what brings two souls together it's

1134
00:45:40,799 --> 00:45:38,140
our Clyde and fall in love

1135
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:40,809
you know the and it's it's the same

1136
00:45:45,750 --> 00:45:42,970
thing I mean the soul is such a powerful

1137
00:45:49,259 --> 00:45:45,760
thing and I might take on it now it is

1138
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:49,269
is that the death is not the end that

1139
00:45:53,130 --> 00:45:51,490
the soul lives on yes yes the actual

1140
00:45:55,829 --> 00:45:53,140
body that we're walking around in that

1141
00:45:58,440 --> 00:45:55,839
that decays on that diet off but our

1142
00:46:00,750 --> 00:45:58,450
souls live on and where they go to I'm

1143
00:46:02,910 --> 00:46:00,760
not sure but I just know that the soul

1144
00:46:05,039 --> 00:46:02,920
lives on and that's exactly where the

1145
00:46:08,009 --> 00:46:05,049
state that I was I feel lucky enough to

1146
00:46:09,779 --> 00:46:08,019
have been in to to have a look into that

1147
00:46:12,240 --> 00:46:09,789
and say right this is what happens next

1148
00:46:14,069 --> 00:46:12,250
our souls live on and of course every

1149
00:46:16,019 --> 00:46:14,079
account that you say that you've

1150
00:46:17,730 --> 00:46:16,029
interviewed with other people's band

1151
00:46:20,789 --> 00:46:17,740
that has buried I'm aware of that

1152
00:46:22,319 --> 00:46:20,799
because since my near-death experience

1153
00:46:24,420 --> 00:46:22,329
it was one of the first things I wanted

1154
00:46:25,710 --> 00:46:24,430
to do was to like so look around you

1155
00:46:27,329 --> 00:46:25,720
know I went straight onto the Internet

1156
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:27,339
where as soon as I could find it when I

1157
00:46:31,650 --> 00:46:29,650
got home to say right yes I have a look

1158
00:46:33,900 --> 00:46:31,660
into this one of the one of the best

1159
00:46:35,759 --> 00:46:33,910
ones I saw actually was from it it was a

1160
00:46:37,710 --> 00:46:35,769
young child I think he must have been

1161
00:46:40,769 --> 00:46:37,720
about five years old and she had had a

1162
00:46:43,799 --> 00:46:40,779
near-death experience and she painted it

1163
00:46:46,019 --> 00:46:43,809
and it was unbelievable because it was

1164
00:46:48,720 --> 00:46:46,029
it was just like a matchstick sort of

1165
00:46:50,670 --> 00:46:48,730
version of my painting that you put up

1166
00:46:52,470 --> 00:46:50,680
earlier it was like her lying on the

1167
00:46:54,749 --> 00:46:52,480
square were lying on a square table

1168
00:46:56,430 --> 00:46:54,759
actually but she got three different

1169
00:46:58,049 --> 00:46:56,440
individual people with their hands out

1170
00:46:58,620 --> 00:46:58,059
with like these stick hands going over

1171
00:47:00,240 --> 00:46:58,630
her body

1172
00:47:02,460 --> 00:47:00,250
then his Square which is like a Blue

1173
00:47:04,499 --> 00:47:02,470
Square over her body which is clearly

1174
00:47:06,569 --> 00:47:04,509
the blue cloth and then it looked like

1175
00:47:08,309 --> 00:47:06,579
what was it like an ice-cream cone sort

1176
00:47:10,259 --> 00:47:08,319
of like flying through the sky towards

1177
00:47:11,789 --> 00:47:10,269
her and I thought wow and that has

1178
00:47:13,620 --> 00:47:11,799
stayed with me because that blew me away

1179
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:13,630
because I just thought there you go it's

1180
00:47:20,789 --> 00:47:16,450
like that she went and heard her soul

1181
00:47:22,470 --> 00:47:20,799
passed over onto the other side I've

1182
00:47:24,269 --> 00:47:22,480
interviewed people David who've had

1183
00:47:25,740 --> 00:47:24,279
multiple near-death experiences and

1184
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:25,750
they've said that they've gone deeper

1185
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:28,930
and subsequent ones and that their the

1186
00:47:33,990 --> 00:47:31,450
reality that they were at gave way to a

1187
00:47:36,390 --> 00:47:34,000
deeper reality and then a deeper reality

1188
00:47:39,240 --> 00:47:36,400
beyond that and they even speculate that

1189
00:47:42,299 --> 00:47:39,250
there's almost no end to how deep or how

1190
00:47:44,490 --> 00:47:42,309
high because it's all moving towards the

1191
00:47:47,309 --> 00:47:44,500
light moving towards God moving towards

1192
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:47,319
love how does that strike you yes I do

1193
00:47:50,850 --> 00:47:49,210
because as I said to you I felt like I

1194
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:50,860
was being

1195
00:47:56,910 --> 00:47:53,290
for something to go on to another stage

1196
00:48:01,230 --> 00:47:56,920
and which I didn't do but I realized now

1197
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:01,240
since my NDA that a lot of my teachings

1198
00:48:04,830 --> 00:48:03,010
are still coming through now it's almost

1199
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:04,840
like they sent me back and it's kind of

1200
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:06,610
okay so I'm backing an heir but I didn't

1201
00:48:10,350 --> 00:48:08,650
suddenly feel like oh man I don't want

1202
00:48:12,810 --> 00:48:10,360
to be back here you know I straightaway

1203
00:48:14,820 --> 00:48:12,820
I was thinking right I want what's my

1204
00:48:16,110 --> 00:48:14,830
purpose why they send me back and I'm

1205
00:48:18,450 --> 00:48:16,120
still sort of searching for those

1206
00:48:20,970 --> 00:48:18,460
answers and so I feel like I'm still

1207
00:48:22,980 --> 00:48:20,980
getting teachings thankfully through

1208
00:48:24,720 --> 00:48:22,990
through the likes of joy and through the

1209
00:48:27,240 --> 00:48:24,730
healing it but not only that I've also

1210
00:48:29,370 --> 00:48:27,250
learnt to channel with my guides to

1211
00:48:31,830 --> 00:48:29,380
communicate with them and they've helped

1212
00:48:34,710 --> 00:48:31,840
me do those paintings they helped me

1213
00:48:36,270 --> 00:48:34,720
have the confidence to actually say I'm

1214
00:48:39,090 --> 00:48:36,280
gonna write a piece of music for an

1215
00:48:41,130 --> 00:48:39,100
orchestra and and not only that that

1216
00:48:43,890 --> 00:48:41,140
very first piece of music that I wrote

1217
00:48:45,690 --> 00:48:43,900
and was performed by an orchestra solve

1218
00:48:47,250 --> 00:48:45,700
at the concert sold out two weeks in

1219
00:48:49,050 --> 00:48:47,260
advance which was for the orchestra

1220
00:48:51,420 --> 00:48:49,060
itself were unheard of there I really

1221
00:48:52,860 --> 00:48:51,430
couldn't believe it and I mean it all

1222
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:52,870
fit in all fairness it was the media

1223
00:48:57,210 --> 00:48:54,610
build-up you know it was good you know

1224
00:48:59,430 --> 00:48:57,220
the local BBC TV guys came down and

1225
00:49:00,750 --> 00:48:59,440
stuff but but it I felt again that

1226
00:49:02,340 --> 00:49:00,760
always been held I felt like these

1227
00:49:03,810 --> 00:49:02,350
guides from the others I still felt like

1228
00:49:05,940 --> 00:49:03,820
I was attacked so I get like there was a

1229
00:49:07,020 --> 00:49:05,950
chord that was still pulling me back up

1230
00:49:09,930 --> 00:49:07,030
there you know and they were helping me

1231
00:49:12,630 --> 00:49:09,940
and they helped all that come together

1232
00:49:15,540 --> 00:49:12,640
and free it to be a really wonderful

1233
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:15,550
event and a pattern audience you know

1234
00:49:19,530 --> 00:49:17,290
the atmosphere was just so beautiful in

1235
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:19,540
the other line and it was just like yeah

1236
00:49:23,970 --> 00:49:21,130
you know I just feel like they're there

1237
00:49:26,370 --> 00:49:23,980
with me and they're still there I was

1238
00:49:28,950 --> 00:49:26,380
sent back here to continue with the work

1239
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:28,960
here but I also get it that other people

1240
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:30,130
could obviously I've read about other

1241
00:49:33,990 --> 00:49:31,570
people's Indies that they do go to

1242
00:49:36,510 --> 00:49:34,000
different dimensions and they they get

1243
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:36,520
all sorts of teachings you know they're

1244
00:49:41,670 --> 00:49:39,970
educated further through those deeper

1245
00:49:44,610 --> 00:49:41,680
sort of dimensions or they go into so

1246
00:49:44,790 --> 00:49:44,620
yeah I believe that it we don't you know

1247
00:49:49,290 --> 00:49:44,800
I

1248
00:49:50,670 --> 00:49:49,300
went to and that's it there it'll be

1249
00:49:53,310 --> 00:49:50,680
different I mentions

1250
00:49:55,740 --> 00:49:53,320
that's awesome David and I think that is

1251
00:49:57,870 --> 00:49:55,750
consistent with your story and with your

1252
00:50:00,030 --> 00:49:57,880
life and you mentioned that pretty early

1253
00:50:04,410 --> 00:50:00,040
on I mean I think one of the ways that

1254
00:50:07,380 --> 00:50:04,420
we can judge the veracity of the

1255
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:07,390
stories is by looking at the people and

1256
00:50:13,530 --> 00:50:11,290
your life is a testament to your story

1257
00:50:15,330 --> 00:50:13,540
and what you've learned not so much like

1258
00:50:18,950 --> 00:50:15,340
a preachy thing because you're not a

1259
00:50:22,350 --> 00:50:18,960
preachy guy it's more a testament to

1260
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:22,360
real spiritual transformation so this

1261
00:50:25,650 --> 00:50:23,050
book of yours

1262
00:50:27,390 --> 00:50:25,660
shine on it's gotten some great press

1263
00:50:28,290 --> 00:50:27,400
you got a great publisher who's really

1264
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:28,300
behind it

1265
00:50:33,300 --> 00:50:31,570
how's that all going for you and where

1266
00:50:34,890 --> 00:50:33,310
do you go after this are you gonna write

1267
00:50:37,230 --> 00:50:34,900
another book or I guess you're open to

1268
00:50:39,540 --> 00:50:37,240
being led wherever you'd be wherever

1269
00:50:40,530 --> 00:50:39,550
you're led huh you just said that yeah

1270
00:50:43,590 --> 00:50:40,540
exactly

1271
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:43,600
it's at the moment it is been that a bit

1272
00:50:47,340 --> 00:50:45,610
like that concert I feel like they're

1273
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:47,350
there with me the Energy's really

1274
00:50:51,570 --> 00:50:49,330
helping me enlisted me along and you

1275
00:50:53,460 --> 00:50:51,580
know we're getting going to torts that

1276
00:50:55,350 --> 00:50:53,470
people you know like yourself which is

1277
00:50:57,930 --> 00:50:55,360
great at least is getting me out there

1278
00:50:59,280 --> 00:50:57,940
and it's getting the message more global

1279
00:51:02,070 --> 00:50:59,290
now I'm just sitting down doing these

1280
00:51:03,750 --> 00:51:02,080
interviews and and the energy of the

1281
00:51:06,090 --> 00:51:03,760
book feels great in terms of you know

1282
00:51:08,700 --> 00:51:06,100
being helped with his promotion which is

1283
00:51:11,220 --> 00:51:08,710
fantastic and I I'm not really thinking

1284
00:51:12,750 --> 00:51:11,230
beyond this state at the moment you know

1285
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:12,760
the books coming out in June so I'm just

1286
00:51:16,830 --> 00:51:14,530
gonna wall just putting all my energies

1287
00:51:19,620 --> 00:51:16,840
towards getting back and hoping that I

1288
00:51:23,250 --> 00:51:19,630
can get it to you know to stay afloat

1289
00:51:25,050 --> 00:51:23,260
and then go out to sea happily and then

1290
00:51:27,240 --> 00:51:25,060
I can think about what comes next but as

1291
00:51:29,490 --> 00:51:27,250
you've said yeah I'll be guided you know

1292
00:51:31,350 --> 00:51:29,500
I know I'm actually writing a new piece

1293
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:31,360
of music at the moment so that's been

1294
00:51:35,010 --> 00:51:33,370
going on for a while which is cool I

1295
00:51:36,780 --> 00:51:35,020
wasn't expecting this and so that's

1296
00:51:38,430 --> 00:51:36,790
coming together really nicely so I know

1297
00:51:40,710 --> 00:51:38,440
that that will probably be the next

1298
00:51:42,930 --> 00:51:40,720
stage because what I want to keep the

1299
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:42,940
music and the art work coming I mean

1300
00:51:46,740 --> 00:51:45,010
so that's it'll it'll carries on it's

1301
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:46,750
just like a continuous it's like a

1302
00:51:54,630 --> 00:51:51,490
little industry it's awesome it's it's

1303
00:51:57,300 --> 00:51:54,640
that's a pretty high order industry so

1304
00:51:59,310 --> 00:51:57,310
that's how it's been awesome getting to

1305
00:52:01,230 --> 00:51:59,320
know you and thanks for joining me

1306
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:01,240
best of luck with all this work thank

1307
00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:04,210
you so much it's been great really great

1308
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:07,210
questions thanks again to davidich field

1309
00:52:11,970 --> 00:52:09,130
for joining me today on skeptic oh I

1310
00:52:12,780 --> 00:52:11,980
have a level 3 kind of question to tee

1311
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:12,790
up for you

1312
00:52:16,200 --> 00:52:15,370
is there something beyond the Christian

1313
00:52:19,079 --> 00:52:16,210
near-death

1314
00:52:23,010 --> 00:52:19,089
experience and if there is something

1315
00:52:26,849 --> 00:52:23,020
beyond it then can it really be called a

1316
00:52:28,290 --> 00:52:26,859
Christian near-death experience I think

1317
00:52:30,210 --> 00:52:28,300
you understand what I'm getting at

1318
00:52:31,859 --> 00:52:30,220
especially if you've listened to a lot

1319
00:52:33,780 --> 00:52:31,869
of these shows I've kind of found it on

1320
00:52:36,329 --> 00:52:33,790
this topic a lot but I'd love to hear

1321
00:52:37,620 --> 00:52:36,339
your thoughts about it drop me a note or

1322
00:52:39,540 --> 00:52:37,630
come over and join others on The

1323
00:52:42,510 --> 00:52:39,550
Skeptical forum tell me what you think

1324
00:52:44,460 --> 00:52:42,520
I'm delighted to see that a few of you

1325
00:52:46,559 --> 00:52:44,470
are doing that I wish even more of you

1326
00:52:48,240 --> 00:52:46,569
would but if you for some reason you

1327
00:52:51,359 --> 00:52:48,250
don't or you can't know that you're

1328
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:51,369
still part of this conversation just by

1329
00:52:56,099 --> 00:52:53,530
listening to it and giving us the

1330
00:52:59,280 --> 00:52:56,109
opportunity connect in this magic way

1331
00:53:01,799 --> 00:52:59,290
that is podcasting so thanks for

1332
00:53:03,390 --> 00:53:01,809
listening I have some I just think

1333
00:53:05,130 --> 00:53:03,400
they're really good shows coming up I

1334
00:53:09,150 --> 00:53:05,140
hope you'll stick with me for all of

1335
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that until next time take care and bye